SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION   st"u 


HEARINGS 

BEFORE  THE 

s 

327         COMMITTEE  ON  |JNANCE    *" 

137         UNITED  STATES  SENATE 


SIXTY-SIXTH  CONGKESS 

THIRD  SESSION 
ON 

o*5 

0°g|  H.  R.  14157 

4       iCT  TO  PROVIDE  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION  FOR  VETERANS 

Jg  >F  THE  WORLD  WAR;  TO  PROVIDE  REVENUE  THEREFOR; 
9  ^  AND  FOR  OTHER  PURPOSES 


PAKT  1 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Finance 


25242 


COMMITTEE  ON  FINANCE. 


BOIES  PENROSE,  Pennsylvania,  Chairman. 


PORTER  J.  McCUMBER,  North  Dakota. 
REED  SMOOT,  Utah. 
ROBERT  M.  LA  FOLLETTE,  Wisconsin. 
WILLIAM  P.  DILLINGHAM,  Vermont. 
GEORGE  P.  McLEAN,  Connecticut. 
CHARLES  CURTIS,  Kansas. 
JAMES  E.  WATSON,  Indiana. 
WILLIAM  M.  CALDER,  New  York. 
HOWARD  SUTHERLAND,  West  Virginia. 


FURNIFOLD  McL.  SIMMONS,  North  Carolina. 
JOHN  SHARP  WILLIAMS,  Mississippi. 
CHARLES  S.  THOMAS,  Colorado. 
THOMAS  P.  GORE,  Oklahoma. 
ANDRIEUS  A.  JONES,  New  Mexico. 
PETER  G.  GERRY,  Rhode  Island. 
JOHN  F.  NUGENT,  Idaho. 


LEIQHTON  C.  TAYLOR,  Clerk. 

WILLIAM  B.   STEWAKT,  Assistant  Clerk. 


SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION. 


WEDNESDAY,   DECEMBER   15,    1920. 

UNITED  STATES  SENATE, 
COMMITTEE  ON  FINANCE, 

Washington,  D.  C. 

The  committee  met,  pursuant  to  the  call  of  the  acting  chairman, 
in  the  committee  room,  Capitol,  at  10.30  o'clock  a.  m.,  Senator  Porter 
J.  McCumber  presiding. 

Present:  Senators  McCumber  (acting  chairman),  Smoot,  La  Fol- 
lette,  Dillingham,  McLean,  Curtis,  Watson,  Calder,  Sutherland,  Sim- 
mons, Gore,  and  Nugent. 

Present  also:  Frederick  W.  Galbraith,  jr.,  national  commander, 
American  Legion,  Cincinnati,  Ohio ;  John  G.  Emery,  vice  commander, 
Michigan;  John  Lewis  Smith,  District  of  Columbia,  member  of  the 
national  legislative  committee  of  the  American  Legion ;  Gilbert  Bett- 
man,  chairman  of  the  national  legislative  committee  of  the  American 
Legion;  John  Thomas  Taylor,  vice  chairman  national  legislative 
committee;  S.  Lovenbein,  chairman  Rank  and  File  Veterans'  Asso- 
ciation, 602  F  Street  NW.,  Washington,  D.  C. ;  Robert  G.  Woodside, 
commander  in  chief  Veterans  of  Foreign  Wars,  Pittsburgh,  Pa., 
Maj.  Clifford  Cox,  Veterans  of  Foreign  Wars,  Washington,  D.  C. ; 
Edward  H.  Hale,  chairman  national  legislative  committee,  Veterans 
of  Foreign  Wars,  Metropolitical  Bank  Building,  Washington,  D.  C. 

Senator  MCCUMBER.  The  committee  will  please  come  to  order.  The 
committee  has  under  consideration  H.  R.  14157,  an  act  to  provide  ad- 
justed compensation  for  veterans  of  the  World  War,  and  to  provide 
revenue  therefor,  and  for  other  purposes. 

A  number  of  gentlemen  have  sought  to  be  heard  on  this  bill  before 
the  committee.  I  do  not  know  what  arrangement  has  been  made 
between  those  desiring  to  be  heard  as  to  which  ones  shall  first  give 
testimony  in  the  matter.  I  leave  that  entirely  to  them,  and  if  some 
of  you  gentlemen  present  will  suggest  who  will  be  heard  at  this  time 
I  shall  call  upon  them. 

STATEMENT   OF  MR.   JOHN  THOMAS  TAYLOR,  VICE  CHAIRMAN 
NATIONAL  LEGISLATIVE  COMMITTEE,  AMERICAN  LEGION. 

Mr.  TAYLOR.  The  American  Legion  is  desirous  of  presenting  its 
argument  first,  Mr.  Chairman. 

iSenator  McCuMBER.  Very  well;  through  whom? 

Mr.  TAYLOR.  Through  the  chairman  of  the  national  legislative 
committee,  Mr.  Gilbert  Bettman,  of  Ohio,  and  the  national  com- 
mander, Col.  F.  W.  Galbraith,  jr. 

3 


4  SOLDIERS      ADJUSTED    COMPENSATION. 

At  this  time,  Mr.  Chairman  and  gentlemen  of  the  Senate  Finance 
Committee,  on  behalf  of  the  American  Legion  and  the  other  veteran 
organizations  here  to-day,  I  desire  to  express  our  appreciation  for 
this  early  opportunity  you  have  given  us  to  appear  on  the  adjusted 
compensation  bill. 

The  American  Legion  is  composed  of  more  than  2,000,000  men  and 
women  who  have  seen  service  in  the  World  War.  They  are  unani- 
mous on  this  adjusted  compensation  bill,  and  at  their  recent  con- 
vention in  Cleveland,  held  September  27,  28,  and  29,  the  delegates 
from  every  State  throughout  the  country,  after  full  discussion  on  the 
floor  of  the  convention,  adopted  the  following  resolution.  [Reading :] 

Resolved,  That  the  American  Legion,  in  national  convention  here  assembled, 
Rives  its  unqualified  approval  of  House  bill  No.  14157,  which  passed  the  House  of 
Representatives  by  a  vote  of  289  to  92  May  29,  1920.  and  which  is  now  pending 
before  the  Senate,  and  which  provides  for  the  optional  plan  of  either — 

1.  Adjusted  service  pay,  based  on  length  of  service; 

2.  Adjusted  service  certificates  maturing  in  20  years,  based  on  length  of 

service ; 

3.  Vocational  training; 

4.  Farm  or  home  aid ;  or 

5.  Land  settlement,  for  which  31  States  have  already  made,  through  their 

State  legislatures,  provision  for  cooperation  :  And  be  it  further 
Resolved,  That  the  American  Legion,  in  national  convention  here  assembled, 
commends  and  approves  the  action  of  the  national  executive  committee  and  the 
national  beneficial   legislative   committee   in   formulating   and   presenting  this 
adjusted  compensation  legislation  to  Congress  :  And  be  it  further 

Resolved,  That  the  American  Legion,  in  national  convention  assembled,  herebjr 
directs  the  national  executive  committee  to  take  such  action  as  it  may  deem 
necessary  to  insure  the  prompt  passage  of  this  bill. 

Our  presentation  to-day,  gentlemen,  will  be  limited,  and  I  desire 
to  present  first  the  chairman  of  the  national  legislative  committee, 
Mr.  Gilbert  Bettman,  of  Ohio. 

STATEMENT  OF  MR.  GILBERT  BETTMAN,  OF  OHIO,  CHAIRMAN 
OF  NATIONAL  LEGISLATIVE  COMMITTEE  OF  THE  AMERICAN 
LEGION. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Mr.  Chairman  and  gentlemen  of  the  committee,  I 
appear  as  a  representative  of  the  American  Legion,  as  chairman  of 
the  national  legislative  committee  of  that  body.  I  appreciate  that 
in  talking  here  we  are  at  the  engine  room  of  the  ship  of  state,  and 
what  you  want,  gentlemen,  is  fuel  of  thought  and  not  hot  air. 

We  come  here  in  a  spirit  of  helpfulness,  to  try  to  offer  the  point 
of  view  of  the  American  Legion,  as  representing  2,000,000  men  and 
women  in  its  own  body,  and  we  believe  also  representative  of  the 
4,500,000  who  were  in  the  service. 

I  think  we  can  be  of  assistance  if  I  should  say  a  word  to  this 
committee  by  way  of  introduction  of  the  history  of  this  legislation. 
Maybe  I  will  say  some  things  that  you  already  know.  But  you  are 
busy  men,  and  possibly  the  exact  history  of  how  this  originated  and 
what  part  the  American  Legion  has  played  may  not  have  come  directly 
to  your  knowledge.  The  first  act  of  the  American  Legion  on  this 
question  of  adjusted  compensation  was  done  in  the  fall  of  1919,  when 
the  first  regular  convention  of  the  American  Legion  was  held,  and  at 
that  time  an  effort  was  made  by  some  to  have  the  American  Legion 
go  on  record  as  requesting  an  adjustment  of  compensation  from  the 
Congress  of  the  United  States. 


SOLDIERS      ADJVSTKD    COMPKX.SATIOX.  5 

The  American  Legion  at  that  time  refused  to  do  that.  The  point 
of  what  they  did  was  this:  The  American  Legion  said  that  it  was 
for  Congress  to  deteimine  what,  if  any,  adjustment  should  be  made 
of  compensation.  The  resolution — and  I  want  to  give  you  these  facts, 
because  I  think  they  are  fundamentals  and  will  give  you  the  setting 
and  the  background  of  this  question  was  (reading)  :  ' 

Be  it  rcxolrrrt,  That  \vhile  the  America;!  Legion  was  not  founded  for  the 
purpose  of  promoting  legislation  in  its  selfish  interest,  yet  it  recognizes  that 
our  Government  has  an  obligation  to  all  service  men  and  women  to  relieve 
the  financial  disadvantages  incidental  to  their  military  service — an  obligation 
second  only  to  that  of  caring  for  the  disabled  and  the 'widows  and  orphans  of 
those  who  sacrificed  their  lives  and  one  already  acknowledged  by  our  Allies— 
but  the  American  Legion  feels  that  it  can  not  ask  for  legislation  in  its  selfish 
interest,  and  leaves  with  confidence  to  Congress  the  discharge  of  this  obligation. 

That  was  the  position  of  this  representative  soldier  body  in  Novem- 
ber of  1919.  Thereafter  bills  were  introduced  in  Congress  by  various 
Representatives  in  Congress  for  divers  kinds  of  soldier  beneficial 
legislation,  some  bills  providing  for  loans,  some  for  farm  aid,  some 
for  cash — indeed,  the  number  of  those  bills  amounted  in  the  early 
spring  of  1919  to  79,  I  think.  These  bills,  because  they  provided 
for  necessary  payments  by  the  Government,  were  referred  by  the 
House  of  Representatives  to  the  Committee  on  Ways  and  Means, 
and  in  the  spring  of  1919  the  Committee  on  Ways  and  Means  invited 
and  asked  the  American  Legion  to  appear  before  it  and  to  express 
the  views  of  the  American  Legion  on  what  form  of  beneficial  legis- 
lation the  American  Legion  thought  would  best  meet  the  needs  of  the 
men  and  best  preserve  the  interests  of  the  country. 

So  the  American  Legion  came  to  the  lower  House  of  Congress,  at 
the  invitation  of  the  House,  and  did  what  it  could  to  bottle  neck 
through  to  the  Ways  and  Means  Committee  the  views  of  the  Ameri- 
can Legion  and  the  views  of  the  ex-service  men  and  women.  And  to 
that  end  the  national  beneficial  legislative  committee  was  formed, 
which  committee,  instead  of  simply  announcing  policies  and  determin- 
ing upon  generalities,  thought  it  could  be  of  greater  assistance  to  the 
House  of  Representatives  by  actually  putting  into  the  form  of  a 
bill  its  conclusions  on  what  form  of  beneficial  legislation  would  meet 
the  needs  of  the  hour;  and  it  devised — that  national  beneficial  com- 
mittee of  the  American  Legion — that  fourfold  optional  plan  of  bene- 
ficial legislation  which  is  the  nub  and  substance  and  structure  of  the 
bill  which  has  been  passed  by  the  House  of  Representatives. 

In  order  to  make  sure  that  that  plan  did  meet  the  needs  and  did 
express  the  views  of  the  entire  body  of  the  American  Legion,  the 
report  of  that  committee  was  submitted  to  the  executive  committee 
of  the  American  Legion — men  from  all  over  the  United  States ;  and 
then  a  poll  was  taken  in  the  various  departments  of  the  American 
Legion  in  each  State,  to  get  the  views  and  the  reactions  to  that  bill 
of  this  entire  body  of  men ;  and  the  American  Legion  executive  com- 
mittee  

Senator  SIMMONS  (interposing).  What  do  you  mean  by  the 
"  various  departments  "  ?  I  would  be  very  glad  to  have  you  explain 
what  those  departments  are,  so  that  we  may  see  to  what  extent 
canvass  was  had  and  what  opportunity  was  afforded  for  measuring 
the  sentiments  of  your  membership. 


6  SOLDIERS      ADJUSTED    COMPENSATION. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  I  am  glad  you  asked  that  question,  Senator.  The 
departments  are  simply  subdivisions  of  the  Legion  which  are  co- 
terminous of  the  States ;  for  example,  the  Ohio  department,  the  New 
York  department,  etc. ;  and  there  is  a  department  in  every  State  of 
the  Union.  There  are  departments  overseas,  in  France  and  Great 
Britain  and  in  the  Philippines. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  You  mean  there  is  a  sort  of  executive  committee 
in  each  State,  with  jurisdiction  in  that  State? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes;  made  up,  however,  of  the  local  posts.  There 
are  10,000  posts  in  the  United  States  of  the  American  Legion — I 
think  it  is  9,800  and  something. 

Senator  LA  FOLLETTE.  That  includes  the  entire  membership  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  includes  the  entire  membership.  So  there  is 
the  national  body,  the  State  body,  and  the  local  posts. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  The  posts  are  local  organizations? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  They  are  local  organizations. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Of  the  service  men? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes;  and  women. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  this  plan  which  you 
outlined  was  submitted  to  each  local  post  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  The  views  of  the  local  posts  were  bottle  necked 
through  to  the  departments  and  through  the  departments,  just  ex- 
actly as  in  any  well-organized  procedure. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  How  was  the  sentiment  of  the  local  posts  ex- 
pressed ?  Was  it  expressed  by  direct  action  on  the  part  of  the  mem- 
bership of  that  post  in  convention  or  meeting  assembled? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Every  year,  Senator,  there  are  conventions  held  in 
the  various  departments,  and  these  conventions  ratified  the  acts  of 
the  national  executive  committee  and  the  acts  of  the  committees  that 
proposed  this  legislation. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Those  are  State  conventions? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Those  are  State  conventions.  And  then  since  that 
time  the  entire  body  has  met.  These  hearings  before  the  Committee 
on  Ways  and  Means  were  in  May  of  this  year,  and  in  September  of 
this  year  the  entire  action  of  the  Legion  was  put  up  to  the  national 
convention,  which  was  held  in  September  at  Cleveland,  and  there 
again  the  action  of  the  American  Legion  was  ratified. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  I  understood  you  to  say  it  was  ratified  by  the 
national  convention  and  by  the  State  conventions.  But  what  I  had 
in  mind  in  asking  the  question  was  whether  this  matter  had  also 
been  submitted  to  the  local  posts  throughout  the  country,  and  what 
was  the  action  of  the  local  posts,  if  any  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  The  local  posts  were  all  represented  in  the  State 
or  the  department 

Senator  SIMMONS  (interposing).  By  their  delegates? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  By  their  delegates  to  the  State. 

Senator  SIMMON.  That  answers  it. 

Senator  LA  FOLLETTE.  The  local  posts  were  not  supplied  with 
copies  of  the  bill? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Oh,  my.  yes;  of  course,  they  were. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  They  did  not  act  as  local  posts,  except  through 
their  representatives  in  the  State  convention? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  There  was  a  poll  taken  after  the  first  meeting  of 
the  executive  committee,  and  there  was  a  practical  polling  of  every 


SOLDIERS     ADJUSTED   COMPENSATION.  7 

post  in  the  United  States.  Of  course,  do  not  understand  me  to  say 
that  there  is  absolutely  no  one  in  the  United  States  in  the  American 
Legion  that  might  hold  a  different  view;  I  am  not  saying  that. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Oh,  no. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  But  we  are  saying  that  the  national  convention,  the 
national  executive  committee,  and  the  posts  through  their  representa- 
tives in  the  State  departments  have  all  ratified  and  approved  this 
action.  I  think  if  anything  can  be  considered  to  be  the  unanimous 
opinion  of  the  American  Legion,  the  approval  of  that  bill  proposed 
to  the  lower  House  represented  that  approval.  I  think  the  vote  in 
the  executive  committee  the  first  time  was  47  to  4.  There  was  a  dis- 
sent on  the  part  of  some  members  in  the  South  because  of  the  particu- 
lar problems  they  have  there,  which,  of  course,  you  gentlemen  can 
readily  infer.  B"ut  when  the  matter  came  up  the  last  time  it  was 
voted  upon  in  the  national  convention — and  certainly  national  con- 
ventions voice  the  sentiments  of  any  organization — it  was  approved 
by  the  national  convention  with  only  the  dissenting  vote  of  South 
Carolina. 

So  it  may  be  said  with  conviction  that  the  bill  as  presented  to  the 
Ways  and  Means  Committee  was  the  voice  of  this  representative 
body — the  American  Legion — and  represented  the  service  men. 

Senator  NUGENT.  Is  it  not  true  that  copies  of  this  bill  were  furnished 
to  the  local  posts  of  this  organization  throughout  the  country,  and 
that  those  local  posts  by  resolution  or  otherwise  ratified  and  requested 
the  passage  of  this  bill  and  instructed  their  delegates  to  the  State  con- 
vention to  take  such  action? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  is  absolutely  true ;  and  that  is  the  way  that  the 
vote  was  taken  of  the  delegates  to  the  departments. 

Now,  then,  in  the  American  Legion,  in  taking  this  action — I  want 
to  stress  this  point  by  way  of  introduction  very,  very  strongly — I 
think  that  this  committee  should  know  that  the  American  Legion 
has  never  taken  a  selfish  attitude  on  this  question.  They  do  not  re- 
gard themselves  as  representing  merely  the  service  men.  They  are 
representative,  they  think,  of  the  people  of  the  United  States  as  well 
as  the  service  men,  and  every  action  which  the  American  Legion  has 
undertaken  in  its  history  has  been  with  a  sense  of  double  obligation — 
first  to  their  own  comrades  as  well  as  to  the  Nation  at  large.  There- 
fore, I  do  not  think  that  the  views  of  the  American  Legion  can  be 
dismissed  as  simply  the  view  of  a  partisan  element  in  the  body  politic. 

I  want  to  read  to  you,  gentlemen,  the  preamble  to  the  constitution 
of  the  American  Legion,  and  as  you  hear  those  words  I  want  you 
to  realize  that  they  are  not  empty  sounds  in  the  life  of  the  American 
Legion;  they  are  the  real  keynote  of  the  action  of  that  body,  and  I 
say  that  with  all  the  conviction  that  I  can  muster.  [Reading :] 

For  God  and  country,"  we  associate  ourselves  together  for  the  following  pur- 
poses : 

To  uphold  and  defend  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  of  America;  to 
maintain  law  and  order;  to  foster  and  perpetuate  a  one  hundred  per  cent 
Americanism ;  to  preserve  the  memories  and  incidents  of  our  association  in  the 
Great  War;  to  inculcate  a  sense  of  individual  obligation  to  the  community, 
State,  and  Nation ;  to  combat  the  autocracy  of  both  the  classes  and  the  masses ; 
to  make  right  the  master  of  might ;  to  promote  peace  and  good  will  on  earth ; 
to  safeguard  and  transmit  to  posterity  the  principles  of  justice,  freedom,  and 
democracy ;  to  consecrate  and  sanctify  our  comradeship  by  our  devotion  to 
mutual  helpfulness. 


8  SOLDIERS      ADJUSTED    COMPENSATION. 

Now,  the  American  Legion's  action  in  answering  this  inquiry  of 
the  House  of  Representatives  as  to  what  form  of  beneficial  legisla- 
tion would  best  meet  the  needs  of  the  hour  was  not  given  in  a  selfish 
spirit  of  getting  something  for  the  service  men,  but  in  a  spirit  of 
trying  to  decide  the  question  for  the  good  of  the  men  and  for  .the 
good  of  the  country. 

This  bill  was  therefore  presented  after  that  careful  action  of  this 
body,  which  has  the  power  of  bringing  to  an  exact  focus  the  views 
of  2,000,000  men,  and  this  bill  presented  to  the  House — this  four- 
fold optional  plan,  as  it  was  called,  which  provided  for  an  adjust- 
ment of  compensation  by  home  aid  or  farm  aid,  by  land  project,  by 
vocational  training,  or  by  a  cash  payment.  The  structure  of  that  bill 
was  adopted  by  the  Ways  and  Means  Committee. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  You  say  "  cash  payment."  I  have  not  exam- 
ined the  bill  very  carefully. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Do  you  mean  pay  down  in  money  immediately, 
or  in  using  the  word  "  cash  "  do  you  mean  something  that  represents 
cash? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes ;  pay  in  cash. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  To  be  paid  in  the  future  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  No ;  paid  now.  That  is  the  first  alternative  in  this 
optional  plan. 

That  bill  was,  as  I  say,  presented,  and  I  think  it  can  be  said  with- 
out egotism  on  the  part  of  the  American  Legion  that  though  their 
hearings  were  on  this  bill  which  is  before  you  gentlemen,  the  record 
of  which,  I  think,  represents  780  pages,  the  American  Legion  occu- 
pied just  47  pages  of  that  787.  And  yet  the  work  that  had  been  done 
by  the  legion  in  presenting  this  bill  was  the  work  which  was  accepted 
by  the  Ways  and  Means  Committee  and  found  its  way,  in  all  substan- 
tial particulars,  into  the  bill  which  was  passed  by  the  House  by  a 
vote  of  289  to  92. 

Now,  then,  with  these  introductory  statements  I  want  to  give  just 
a  sketch  of  the  bill  itself,  so  that  you  gentlemen  may  get  an  idea 

Senator  McLEAN.  Just  a  minute  before  you  proceed  with  that.  I 
have  not  followed  the  recent  developments  with  regard  to  the  differ- 
ent interests  which  some  time  ago  seemed  to  be  very  much  concerned 
with  this  legislation.  I  just  notice,  however,  on  page  37  of  these 
House  hearings,  that  Mr.  Hale  remarks : 

Our  friends  the  American  Legion  have  advocated  a  selective  program.  The 
Veterans  of  Foreign  Wars  emphatically  dissent  from  this  proposition. 

I  understand  the  Veterans  of  Foreign  Wars  to  be  a  separate  organi- 
zation of  750,000  or  more  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes. 

Senator  McLEAN.  I  have  not  read  these  hearings  in  full,  but  I 
would  like  to  know  whether  there  are  separate  organizations,  like 
the  one  represented  by  the  Veterans  of  the  Foreign  Wars,  who  are 
still  protesting  against  the  proposal  of  the  American  Legion? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  There  are  two  points  to  that  question.  Answering 
your  first  point,  Are  there  separate  organizations?  the  answer  is: 
Yes;  there  are  separate  organizations  of  veterans;  the  American 
Legion  is  not  the  only  organization.  But  the  American  Legion  thinks 
that  it  is  very  representative  of  the  service  men.  There  are  other 


SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION.  9 

organizations,  and  one  of  them  is  the  organization  which  you  name — 
the  Veterans  of  Foreign  Wars — who,  hearing  of  this  meeting  this 
morning,  which  we  were  invited  to  attend,  are  also  here,  and  I  under- 
stand from  those  gentlemen  that  they  are  back  of  this  same  bill 
which  the  House  passed. 

Senator  McLfiAN.  Then  there  is  a  general  agreement  at  this  time 
between  all  the  parties  at  interest? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  I  think  that  I  can  sav  there  is.  The  attitude  mostly 
has  been  in  regard  to  the  other  organizations;  we  welcome  their  co- 
operation and  wish  long  life  to  them,  and  doubtless  as  long  as  they 
are  of  service  they  will  live.  But  I  have  been  stressing  just  the  part 
which  the  American  Legion  has  played  in  order  to  help  Congress  to 
arrive  at  a  solution  of  this  question. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  Just  please  tell  the  committee  who  compose 
the  membership  of  the  American  Legion — men  who  fought  in  all  the 
foreign  wars? 

Senator  McLEAX.  I  do  not  mean  just  this  war,  but  other  wars? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  And  exists  for  the  others,  not  only 

Senator  McLEAX  (interposing).  Is  that  true? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  It  includes  the  Spanish-American  War  veterans 

Senator  McLEAX  (interposing).  And  veterans  of  the  Civil  War? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  No ;  that  was  not  a  foreign  war. 

Senator  McLEAX.  As  I  understand  it  the  Veterans  of  Foreign 
Wars  is  composed  largely  of  men  who  did  foreign  service  in  the  last 
war? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  Of  course  the  American  Legion  is  composed  that 
same  way. 

Senator  McLEAX.  That  includes  those  who  served  on  this  side  as 
well  as  those  who  served  on  the  other  side  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  Oh,  yes;  any  man  who  served  from  April  to  No- 
vember 11,  1918,  is  entitled  to  membership  in  the  American  Legion. 
'The  Veterans  of  Foreign  Wars  has  a  representative  here  in  the  per- 
son of  Mr.  Robert  G.  Woodside,  who  has  just  said  that  they  will 
speak  for  themselves. 

Senator  LA  FOLLETTE.  Will  you  please  name  the  various  organiza- 
tions of  veterans? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  I  do  not  think  I  could. 

Senator  LA  FOLLETTE.  There  are  large  numbers  of  them? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  Quite  a  few  of  them;  I  do  not  know  how  many — 
probably  18  or  20. 

Senator  LA  FOLLETTE.  How  many  of  them  are  represented  here — 
what  organizations  are  here  to-day  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  I  do  not  know  who  is  here.  I  think  only  the  Vet- 
erans of  Foreign  Wars:  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  LOVEXBEIX.  The  Rank  and  File  Veterans'  Association  is  repre- 
sented here. 

A  VOICE.  The  Soldiers  and  Sailors'  Legion  are  here. 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  To  continue,  gentlemen,  with  just  a  brief  outline 
of  the  scheme  of  this  bill,  it  provides  for  an  optional  plan  of  adjusted 
compensation. 

Senator  SIMMOXS.  Before  you  enter  upon  that,  I  do  not  under- 
stand that  your  bill  provides  *any  relief  of  any  kind  to  any  veterans 
unless  they  are  veterans  of  the  World  War  ? 


10  SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  is  true.  The  scheme  of  the  bill  is  this :  It  is 
an  attempt  to  approximately  adjust  the  compensation  of  the  men  who 
served  in  the  World  War.  As  the  needs  of  those  men  were  very 
diverse,  the  plan  was  to  provide  either  for  a  payment  in  cash  or  an 
advance  in  the  shape  of  an  adjusted  service  certificate.  That  part 
of  this  bill  was  put  in  by  the  House  of  Representatives;  it  was  not 
in  the  original  bill  propounded  by  the  Legion.  It  is  in  the  nature  of 
an  insurance  for  the  men.  It  provides  for  no  cash  payment,  but 
gives  the  men  a  certificate  payable  in  20  years  if  he  lives,  and  pay- 
able on  his  death  should  he  die;  and  it  is  the  amount  of  his  adjusted 
pay  plus  interest  compounded  for  20  years. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  After  three  years  he  may  borrow  90  per  cent 
of  it? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  And  after  five  years  80  per  cent  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes.  In  addition  to  that  insurance  feature  of  it, 
it  has  the  feature  that  Senator  McCumber  has  just  spoken  of,  being 
the  basis  of  the  loan  to  the  service  man  from  the  Government. 

The  next  alternative  was  the  alternative  of  taking  his  adjusted 
compensation  in  the  shape  of  vocational  training  with  the  Vocational 
Training  Board  already  in  existence. 

The  next  is  the  land-settlement  feature,  which  is  part  of  a  project 
to  settle  the  ex-service  men  upon  the  lands  in  the  West  mainly,  and 
to  aid  them  in  acquiring  their  land  by  giving  them  their  adjusted 
service  pay  in  the  shape  of  an  advance  toward  that  payment  for 
their  land. 

Now,  then,  in  order  that  the  obligation  to  the  country  might  be 
performed,  and  to  see  that  the  adjusted  service  pay  was  used  in  pro- 
ductive channels  as  far  as  possible,  the  American  Legion  devised  the 
plan  of  making  those  service-pay  adjustments  taken  in  the  produc- 
tive channels  of  a  greater  value. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Pardon  me  just  one  moment:  You  consider  this 
as  an  optional  plan.  But  if  all  the  veterans  would  see  fit  to  take  cash 
would  they  all  be  entitled  to  cash  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Under  the  bill  they  would.  But  the  answer  to 
that  is  they  will  not  all  accept  the  option  that  way. 

Senator  WATSON.  Have  you  any  idea  how  many  will  avail  them- 
selves of  these  options  ?  Is  there  any  way  to  determine  that  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  There  is  no  way,  Senator  Watson,  to  determine  that. 

Senator  WATSON.  Have  you  ever  sought  to  determine  it  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  is  only  a  matter  for  judgment  and  estimation. 

Senator  WATSON.  Certainly. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Our  best  judgment  is  that  the  number  who  will  take 
cash  is  small.  I  was  just  about  to  say  that  those  four  avenues  of  ad- 
justed compensation — vocational  training  aid,  land  project,  and  the 
insurance,  etc.,  are  so  sweetened  in  this  bill  40  per  cent — that  is,  a  man 
will  get,  say,  $1.25  a  day  if  he  takes  it  in  cash,  but  if  he  takes  it  in 
any  of  those  other  four  forms  he  will  get  $1.25  plus  40  per  cent  of 
$1.25.  The  idea  was  to  encourage  the  men  to  take  it  in  the  produc- 
tive channels,  to  take  it  as  home  aid  or  as  a  part  of  payment  in  acquir- 
ing a  home  in  the  West,  or  as  vocational  training. 

To  come  back  to  your  question,  Senator  Watson,  it  is  the  opinion 
of  many  men  who  have  thought  of  this  question  that  in  view  of  the 


SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION.  11 

diverse  needs  of  the  men  over  the  country,  in  view  of  the  fact  that 
these  productive  avenues  of  adjusted  compensation,  home  aid,  etc., 
have  the  attractive  feature  of  40  per  cent  more  than  the  cash,  our 
judgment  is  that  not  over  50  per  cent  of  the  men,  if  that  many,  will 
exercise  their  option  for  cash.  It  is  only  an  estimate,  Senator. 

Senator  McL/EAX.  Upon  what  do  you  base  your  judgment  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  We  base  it  simply  upon  the  greater  attractiveness 
of  the  other  features  of  the  bill.  The  fact  that  300,000  men  are  now 
trying  to  learn  from  the  Interior  Department  how  they  can  get  farms, 
and  they  are  waiting  for  information  and  showing  their  interest  in 
farm  and  land  projects  as  well  as  the  men  who  are  showing  their 
interest  in  cash. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  The  farm  conditions  at  the  present  time  would 
not  encourage  them  very  much  along  that  line,  would  they  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Of  course,  many  men  think  that  is  just  a  temporary 
situation. 

Senator  McLiEAN.  There  has  been  no  canvass  made  of  the  per- 
sonnel at  the  different  posts  to  find  out  what  proportion  would  prefer 
cash? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Such  a  canvass  would  be  practically  impossible. 
How  could  you  take  a  poll  before  there  is  any  assurance  that  the  bill 
would  be  passed? 

Senator  SMOOT.  Let  me  ask  you  a  question. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes. 

Senator  SMOOT.  There  is  some  organization  or  association — I  do 
not  know  whether  it  is  the  American  Legion  or  some  other  or- 
ganization of  the  soldiers — that  has  taken  action  in  this  regard, 
and  I  have  tabulated  the  post  cards  I  have  received  from  all  over 
the  United  States  as  to  just  what  the  soldiers  who  have  sent  me  these 
postal  cards  want,  and  I  want  to  say  to  you  that  there  is  98  per  cent 
of  those  who  have  written  to  me  who  want  cash.  I  do  not  know 
whether  the  organization  that  is  asking  for  cash  is  more  active  than 
the  other  organizations,  but  98  per  cent  of  those  sending  postal  cards 
to  me  from  all  over  the  United  States  are  asking  for  cash. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Possibly  that  is  a  propaganda  against  the  bill;  I 
do  not  know.  , 

Senator  SMOOT.  Oh,  no.  It  is  not  from  my  State  alone.  I  know 
people  in  my  State  who  have  asked  for  cash  not  through  a  propa- 
ganda; it  comes  through  other  organizations  and  it  is  in  the  form 
of  printed  postal  cards.  I  can  show  them  to  you  by  the  thousands, 
if  you  will  come  to  my  office. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  It  has  been  presented  to  the  men  as  an  opportunity 
to  state  what  they  want. 

Senator  SMOOT.  The  men  have  addressed  postal  cards  to  me,  and 
I  think  many  of  the  other  Senators  have  many  of  them,  too,  answer- 
ing the  question  as  to  which  one  of  the  four  propositions  they  wished,, 
they  have  generally  said  "  Cash  " — that  is,  not  always,  but  98  per  cent 
have  said  "  Cash." 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  In  order  to  answer  the  question — of  course,  if  you 
have  conducted  in  your  own  State 

Senator  SMOOT  (interposing).  This  is  not  only  in  my  own  State, 
and  I  have  not  conducted  it.  I  can  show  you  postal  cards  from 
every  other  State  in  the  Union. 


12  SGLD1EES      ADJUSTED    COMPENSATION. 

Senator  DILLINGHAM.  I  think  that  is  true;  I  have  received  cards 
from  my  own  State. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  I  did  not  know  that  any  such  poll  had  been  sent 
out.  The  American  Legion  has  not  undertaken  such  a  poll.  It  is 
also  indefinite  as  to  whether  the  bill  is  going  to  pass  or  not,  and  it  is, 
of  course,  uncertain  what  percentage  of  the  men  will  say  they  prefer 
«ash  to  home  aid. 

Senator  WATSON.  You  have  seen  these  postal  cards,  have  you  not  ? 

Senator  SMOOT.  They  are  headed — 

MY  OPINION  ON  THE  BONUS   QUESTION. 

We  want  you  to  know  how  the  ex-service  men  (and  folks  in. general  here) 
feel  about  the  bonus  question — adjusted  compensation  for  ex-service  men.  We 
want  you  to  come  out  publicly  during  the  coming  campaign  and  when  Congress 
meets  again  as  indicated  below : 

I  am  for  the  bonus.  I  favor  cash.  My  post  is  for  the  bonus.  The  name  of 
my  post  is  James  Henderson.  I  find  that  the  public  here  is  for  the  bonus. 

We  want  you  to  be  for  the  bonus  during  the  coming  political  campaign  and 
when  Congress  meets  again.  We  would  like  to  have  you  let  us  know  how  you 
stand. 

I  have  received  thousands  of  those  cards  from  every  State  in  the 
Union.  I  have  tabulated  mine,  and  I  say  to  you  now  that  there  is 
98  per  cent  of  them  who  are  for  cash. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  I  am  informed  that  those  postal  cards  were  sent  out 
by  the  Stars  and  Stripes. 

Senator  SMOOT.  It  says : 

This  expression  of  opinion  is  made  possible  by  the  cooperation  of  the  readers 
and  friends  of  the  Stars  and  Stripes  and  ex-service  men  everywhere. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  is  propaganda  for  the  bonus.  Now,  then, 
whether  of  not  that  truly  represents  the  ex-service  men  or  not  I  do 
not  know.  The  Stars  and  Stripes  were  trying  to  get  a  cash  bonus, 
and  no  doubt  they  got  expressions  from  men  who  were  in  favor  of  a 
cash  bonus. 

Senator  SMOOT.     This  is  left  optional  with  them. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  I  think  if  you  would  discuss  the  other  plans  in 
a  way,  if  you  can,  to  show  us  that  there  would  be  many  men  receive 
greater  benefits  through  some  other  one  of  your  four  methods  than 
through  the  cash  plan,  I  think  it  would  help  us  more  than  merely 
discussing  the  figures  as  to  how  many  you  think  were  for  cash  and 
how  many  you  think  were  for  the  other  plan. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  Before  proceeding  with  that,  let  me  say  to 
the  witness  that  here  is  a  bunch  of  the  same  kind  of  postals  Senator 
Smoot  referred  to  that  have  come  to  the  office  of  Senator  Penrose. 
.[Exhibiting  package  of  postal  cards.]  I  have  picked  out  of  the 
bunch  13  cards,  of  which  10  call  for  cash,  2  favor  the  loan,  and  1 
makes  no  recommendation;  .and  possibly  that  will  give  a  fair  esti- 
mate of  the  number  that  wish  cash. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  I  understood  you  to  say  awhile  ago  that  you 
thought  a  great  many  would  select  one  of  these  methods  of  settle- 
ment, because  they  would  get  40  per  cent  more  than  they  would  if 
they  got  cash.  I  want  you  to  explain  to  us  exactty  the  method  by 
which  they  would  get  this  additional  percentage. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  is  the  provision  in  the  bill. 


SOLDIERS      ADJUSTKIt    C<  t.MPKXSATlOX.  13 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Explain  it  to  us.  please.  I  do  not  catch  it.  I 
have  not  read  the  bill  very  carefully.  I  would  prefer  to  hear  you 
gentlemen  before  I  do  read  it. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  I  have  made  up  a  very  short  statement  of  each 
one  of  these  systems,  and  if  I  may  read  them  to  you 

Senator  SIMMMOXS  (interposing).  Is  it  in  the  record.  Mr.  Chair- 
man  

Senator  McCuMBER  (interposing).  They  have  not  been  put  in  the 
record,  but  I  will  read  them  into  the  record  now. 

Senator  SIMMOXS.  All  right. 

Senator  McCrMBER  (reading)  : 

BOM'S    PLAN. 

1.  Adjusted  service  pay.— This  pay  is  $1.25  for  each  day  of  overseas  service 
and  $1  for  each  day  of  home  service ;  the  former  not  to  exceed  $625,  the  latter 
not  to  exceed  $500.    Service  is  between  April  5,  1917.  and  July  1,  1919. 

2.  Adjusted  service  certificates.— These  certificates  add  40  per  cent  to  the 
adjusted  service  pay,  plus  interest  thereon  for  20  years  at  the  rate  of  4J  per 
cent  per  annum  compounded  annually — 

Senator  SIMMOXS  (interposing).  Let  me  ask  the  witness  a  ques- 
tion. Does  that  mean  yoii  would  add  40  per  cent  to  the  $1.25  before 
you  begin? 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  Yes.  sir. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  Let  me  finish  putting  this  in.  because  I  think 
it  will  help  the  committee  understand  this. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  Yes. 

Senator  McCuMBER  (reading  continued)  : 

such  amount  being  approximately  equal  to  3.38  times  the  adjusted  service 
pay.  This  sum  is  not  to  be  paid  until  the  end  of  20  years,  but  90  per  cent  may 
be  borrowed  through  the  Post  Office  Department  between  the  third  and  fifth 
years  and  80  per  cent  from  the  sixth  to  the  twentieth  year. 

3.  Vocational   training   aid. — The  Federal  Board  for   Vocational  Education, 
upon  certification  from  the  Secretary  of  War  or  the  Secretary  of  the  Xavy  to 
pay  to  veterans  designated   (if  not  receiving  benefits  of  vocational  rehabilita- 
tion act)   the  sum  of  $1.75  for  each  day  of  attendance  on  course  of  training, 
total  payment  not  to  exceed  140  per  cent  of  amount  of  adjusted  service  pay. 
If  payments  under  this  section,  plus  amount  forfeited  for  unjustifiable  absence, 
is  less  than  140  per  cent  of  adjusted  service  pay,  veteran  shall  be  entitled  to 
receive  an  amount  equal  to  difference  between   (1)   adjusted  service  pay  and 
(2)  that  proportion  thereof  which  the  payments  made  or  accrued  under  the 
section  providing  $1.75  for  each  day  of  attendance  on  a  course  of  vocational 
training,  plus  amounts  forfeited  for  unjustifiable  absence,  bear  to  140  per  cent 
of  adjusted  service  pay.  provided  that  from  this  amount  shall  be  deducted  an 
amount  equal  to  the  sum  forfeited  for  unjustifiable  absence. 

4.  Farm  or  home  aid. — The  national   veterans'  settlement  board,  upon  cer- 
tification from  the  Secretary  of  War  or  the  Secretary  of  the  Navy,  is  directed  to 
pay  to  veteran,  in  one  payment  or  installments,  an  amount  equal  to  his  adjusted 
service  pay  increased  by  40  per  cent. 

5.  Land  settlement  aid. — The  national  veterans'  settlement  board  is  author- 
ized to  establish  projects  for  reclamattion  and  settlement  of  lands  by  means  of 
irrigation,  drainage,  etc.    The  Secretary  may  withdraw  from  location,  sale,  set- 
tlement, entry,  or  other  disposition  and  place  under  control  of  the  board  such 
unappropriated  public  lands  as  he  may  deem  necessary  for  any  project,  and 
shall  restore  to  public  entry  lands  so  withdrawn,  if  subsequently  board  finds 
that  such  lands  are  not  so  required. 

So  far  as  practicable  veterans  shall  be  employed  and  services  utilized  in  ad- 
ministrative and  field  work.  The  board  shall  establish  farm  units  of  acreage 
sufficient  in  opinion  of  the  board  to  support  a  family,  and  smaller  units  suffi- 
cient in  opinion  of  board  for  part  time  cultivation  by  a  farm  worker's  family. 
These  farm  units  or  farm  workers'  units  shall  be  allotted  to  any  veteran  or 


14  SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION. 

repatriate  who  applies  and  whose  name  has  been  properly  certified.  As  be- 
tween applicants  preference  shall  be  jriveii  to  those  applicants  employed  on 
projects  and  to  those  considered  less  likely  to  fail  and  to  cause  loss  to  the 
United  States. 

That,  in  brief,  is  the  substance  of  this  entire  bill,  so  far  as  the  four 
projects  are  concerned. 

Senator  SMOOT.  It  is  substantially  a  20-year  endowment  policy. 

Senator  McLEAN.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question:  It  must  be  very 
clear  to  the  witness  that  Congress  if  it  enacts  this  law  has  got  to  pro- 
vide the  ways  and  means  for  carrying  it  out,  and  it  is  important  for 
Congress  to  know  whether  it  has  got  to  raise  two  or  three  billions  in 
cash  or  only  two  or  three  hundred  millions  in  cash,  to  start  with ;  and 
it  seems  to  me  to  be  entirely  practicable  for  the  officers  in  these  posts 
throughout  the  country  to  take  a  canvass  of  the  membership  of  each 
post  and  ascertain  fairly  what  the  choice  of  the  membership  would 
be,  assuming  that  this  bill  is  to  pass.  And  what  I  would  like  to  know 
is  whether  anything  of  that  kind  has  been  done.  Otherwise,  we  have 
no  guide — it  is  entirely  guesswork,  and  we  do  not  know  whether  we 
have  got  to  raise  billions  or  hundreds  of  millions. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  point,  of  course,  is  well  observed,  Senator. 
But  the  situation  has  not  yet  developed  to  the  point  where  such  a 
canvass  could  be  undertaken  with  great  confidence.  I  admit  that  your 
observation  might  be  followed  out. 

Instead  of  doing  that,  the  American  Legion  has  gone  on  record  to 
this  effect,  and  pledges  itself  to  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
to  do  this :  That  when  this  bill  is  passed  a  campaign  will  be  started 
by  the  American  Legion  to  do  all  in  its  power  to  have  the  men  exer- 
cise their  option  in  favor  of  some  of  these  productive  channels  rather 
than  the  pure  cash  bonus. 

Now,  then,  we  might  do  both  things;  we  might  follow  your  sug- 
gestion; we  might  say,  "Well,  let  us  take  a  canvass  in  advance,  in 
order  that  the  Senate  might  be  advised."  We  have  not  had  time  to 
do  that  thing.  But  let  me  say  this,  gentlemen 

Senator  LA  FOLLETTE  (interposing).  It  would  be  true,  would  it  not, 
that  maturer  consideration  and  discussion  in  the  various  posts  might 
change  individual  attitudes?  If  you  took  a  census  of  your  posts  at 
this  time  there  might  be  a  large  percentage  of  them  would  prefer  cash 
and  express  themselves  in  that  way,  and  yet  the  matter  if  thoroughly 
canvassed  with  them,  and  when  they  see  the  larger  benefits  that  might 
be  derived  from  some  of  the  other  options,  they  might  change  their 
opinions  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  LAFOLLETTE.  So  that  such  a  preliminary  canvass  might 
be  very  misleading  ? 

Senator  McLEAN.  That  is  true,  Senator  LaFollette,  but  if  the  pre- 
liminary canvass  showed  that  98  per  cent  of  the  membership  were 
now  in  favor  of  cash  and  that,  if  so,  since  Congress  must  provide  the 
ways  and  means,  it  would  be  futile  for  us  to  go  ahead  and  pass  this 
bill  without  raising  the  money  in  some  way. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Let  me  make  two  observations. 

Senator  McLEAN.  Where  a  much  larger  sum  would  be  necessary 
than  if  the  number  was  very  small  who  wanted  cash. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Let  me  make  two  observations:  The  American 
Legion  has  2,000,000  members;  we  have  not  4,500,000  men  in  our 


SOLDIERS      ADJUSTED    COMPENSATION.  15 

ranks,  and  there  were  4,500,000  men  in  the  service.  So  it  would  not 
be  possible  to  even  accomplish  what  you  desire  us  to,  to  wit,  to  get  a 
poll  of  every  service  man  and  woman  in  the  United  States. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  But,  do  you  not  think  the  expression  of  2,000,000 
of  the  4,500,000  could  very  reasonably  be  accepted  as  representing 
the  sentiment  of  the  polls  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  It  might.  But  I  do  not  know  whether  the  Senator 
would  be  willing  to  bank  legislation  on  that  entire  poll. 

Senator  SMOOT.  I  do  not  think  your  statement  is  quite  correct.  I 
do  not  think  The  American  Legion  has  ever  gone  out  and  made 
propaganda  for  cash  bonus,  but  I  do  believe  other  organizations 
have,  and  nothing  but  cash  bonus  will  suit  them.  You  know  those 
organiaztions  as  well  as  I  do? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes. 

Senator  McLEAN.  And  these  post  cards  may  represent  nothing  but 
that  propaganda. 

Senator  SMOOT.  Whatever  legislation  is  passed,  Congress  has  got 
to  be  in  a  position  to  meet  it,  no  matter  what  it  costs. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes,  Senator ;  but  in  considering  the  policy  of  the 
project,  do  not  determine  the  question  of  policy  by  a  false  percentage ; 
and  if  you  think  that  98  per  cent  of  the  service  men  of  the  United 
States  are  going  to  vote  for  cash,  when  they  can  get  their  insurance 
or  their  vocational  training  or  their  farm  or  home  aid  or  land  proj- 
ect— if  you  think  that  98  per  cent  of  those  men  are  going  to  take  cash 
instead  of  those  other  options,  I  think  that  is  an  erroneous  figure — 
very  erroneous. 

Senator  SMOOT.  I  have  not  expressed  myself  that  the  veteran  would 
take  it.  I  am  telling  the  situation  as  it  has  developed  in  the  propa- 
ganda that  has  been  started.  I  say,  I  do  not  think  that  the  American 
Legion  has  started  that  propaganda,  but  I  do  know  this,  that  of  the 
postal  cards  that  I  have  received  98  per  cent  of  them  say  that  the 
signers  of  them  want  cash,  and  that  their  option  is  for  cash ;  that  I 
do  know. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  may  be  true  and  that  undoubtedly  is  true,  but 
just  as  the  Senator  observed,  those  postals  were  sent  out  with  that 
object  in  mind. 

Senator  MCLEAN.  That  may  be  true,  but  it  seemed  to  me  to  be  a 
very  easy  matter  to  take  a  canvass  of  representative  posts  in  the 
different  States  of  the  Union — not  all  of  them,  but  you  might  get 
some  basic  idea  that  would  represent  or  furnish  the  committee  with 
information  that  would  be  valuable,  because  we  have  got  to  know; 
that  is,  if  we  pass  this  law  we  have  also  got  to  raise  the  funds. 

Senator  SMOOT.  They  would  not  be  bound  by  whatever  they  said 
anyhow. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  No;  and  as  Senator  La  Follette  has  said,  you 
might  get  a  more  inaccurate  vote,  and  when  the  thing  was  put  up  to 
the  man  you  might  get  something  different. 

Senator  McLEAN.  But  now  we  have  no  indication  whatever.  It 
seems  to  me  it  would  be  worth  while  to  ascertain,  if  possible,  to  some 
degree  the  choice  of  the  members  of  the  Legion. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  I  think  that  could  very  well  be  done. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  I  have  no  idea  that  anything  like  98  per  cent, 
under  the  several  plans  that  have  been  discussed,  would  demand 
cash. 


16  SOLDIERS'  ADJUSTED  COMPENSATION. 

Senator  SMOOT.  Nor  have  I. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  The  plan  is  very  attractive  to  a  great  many 
people.  There  is  a  certain  element  who  want  cash,  and  I  think  they 
are  probably  the  ones  who  wrote  these  cards.  I  think  they  are  repre- 
sentative of  that  particular  element,  and  I  have  no  doubt  a  canvass 
Avould  show  that  probably  the  membership  would  be  something  like 
equally  divided  upon  these  four  plans.  But  I  do  believe  if  it  could 
be  done  without  too  great  inconvenience  by  your  national  com- 
mittee, that  if  you  were  to  sound  the  various  posts  of  the  country — 
and  that  would  not  take  very  much  time — upon  this  question  and 
give  us  in  a  general  way  the  results  of  their  poll  I  think  it  would  be 
very  helpful  to  us. 

Senator  McLEAN.  Certainly  it  would,  if  they  were  willing  to  sign 
their  names  to  their  choice.  I  think  that  would  be  rather  initially 
connected  with  your  propaganda  that  you  intend  to  carry  on  after- 
wards in  an  effort  to  persuade  them  that  the  better  choice  is  not  to 
take  the  cash. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  I  think  it  would  be,  and  I  think  that  can  be  put 
up  to  the  Legion. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  If  as  a  result  of  your  inquiry  you  can  show  that 
75  per  cent  wanted  cash,  probably  that  would  influence  even  the 
friends  of  this  measure  to  desire  to  amend  it  so  that  the  whole  of  this 
cash  should  not  be  paid  at  once,  but  be  paid,  maybe,  in  one,  two,  or 
three  years — something  of  that  sort. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Or  you  might  extend  the  time  during  which  the 
men  could  exercise  the  option,  which  is  another  suggestion. 

Senator  WATSON.  What  would  it  cost,  all  cash  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  That  is  a  mere  matter  of  calculation.  The  War 
Department  says  that  the  average  service  was  300  days,  and  if  there 
were  4,500,000  men,  300  days,  at  $1.25  per  day — but,  of  course,  you 
know  there  is  a  limit  in  this  bill,  $625.  Three  hundred  days  at  $1.25  is 
$375,  and  4,000,000  would  take  just  4,000.000  times  that.  But  the  com- 
mittee is  not  going  to  help  itself,  I  believe,  if  it  assumes  that  such  a 
large  percentage  of  the  men  are  going  to  take  cash. 

You  have  got  to  consider  what  these  men  have  been  through  and 
who  they  are.  Just  a  short  time  ago  they  were  the  great  heroes  of 
the  Nation.  They  have  not  lost  their  capacity  for  judgment  and 
clear  thinking.  A  home  means  something  to  them;  a  farm  means 
something  to  them ;  and  insurance  for  their  benefit  and  the  benefit  of 
those  who  are  dependent  on  them  means  something  to  them. 

If  a  poll  were  taken,  I  think  it  could  safely  be  said  that  not  over 
50  per  cent  would  take  cash.  But  to  meet  the  suggestion,  if  it  will 
be  helpful  to  the  committee,  I  think  such  a  poll  might  be  attempted, 
an  unbiased,  nonpartisan  poll,  to  get  a  reflex  of  the  great  service 
body.  But,  of  course,  this  question  has  come  up  before  the  oppor- 
tunity was  presented  to  do  that.  The  Senate  Finance  Committee,  as 
we  understood  it,  desired  to  know  what  its  scheme  of  general  taxation 
should  be;  of  course,  it  wanted  to  know  what  its  obligations  were, 
and  therefore  desired  to  hear  the  American  Legion. 

Senator  McLEAN.  You  realize,  if  you  come  before  this  committee 
after  taking  this  poll  with  a  proposition  that  is  going  to  require,  say, 
a  billion  and  a  half  of  cash  now,  with  a  billion  and  a  half  deficit  fac- 
ing the  Treasury  and  five  billion  and  a  half  more  coming  due  in  two 
years,  that  you  come  with  a  different  proposition  than  you  would  if 


SOLDIERS      ADJUSTED    COMPENSATION.  17 

you  were  asking  for  two  or  three  hundred  millions  immediately  and 
the  rest  could  be  deferred  ? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Oh,  yes ;  of  course,  we  appreciate  that. 

Senator  McLEAN.  That  would  be  a  staggering  proposition  if  they 
all  wanted  cash  and  wanted  it  now. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  One  answer  to  that  is :  Are  they  not  entitled  to  it  ? 
We  have  not  approached  that  question. 

Senator  McLEAN.  That  may  all  be  true.  I  do  not  think  there  is 
any  disposition  on  the  part  of  any  Member  of  Congress  to  minimize 
the  obligation  due  the  American  Legion.  It  is  a  question  of  ways 
and  means  at  this  time ;  and  if  you  could  show  to  us  that  it  was  not 
required  just  now,  you  would  be  in  a  much  stronger  position  with 
your  bill. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Probably  so.  But.  even  after  such  a  poll,  it  would 
still  be  a  matter  of  judgment  as  to  how  many  are  going  to  exercise 
the  option  for  cash  and  how  many  for  home  aid  or  the  land  project 
or  vocational  training. 

Those  other  features  of  the  bill  you  must  keep  in  mind  also  and 
provide  for  necessary  funds  from  the  Government ;  for  example,  the 
vocational  training  provides  that  the  men  taking  vocational  training 
will  be  paid  $1.75  a  day.  The  insurance  feature,  Title  2.  would  call 
for  the  expenditure  of  governmental  money,  because  as  soon  as  a  man 
dies  his  adjusted  service  certificate  would  be  payable,  and  that  would 
call  for  money.  Now.  how  are  you  going  to  estimate  that  kind  of 
thing  with  exactitude  ?  The  Senate  Finance  Committee  must  simply 
exercise  its  judgment  as  to  how  much  money  is  going  to  be  needed. 
Of  course,  help  might  be  given,  as  you  say,  by  such  a  poll,  and  such  a 
poll  might  be  taken.  But  the  final  decision  and  the  final  exercise  of 
judgment  is  the  good  sense  and  best  estimation  of  the  Senate  Finance 
Committee. 

Senator  SMOOT.  For  instance,  under  the  adjusted-service  certifi- 
cate, a  man  whose  adjusted  service  is  $500  has  only  to  wait  three 
years  and  he  can  borrow  $491.40  on  it;  and  there  is  not  any  doubt 
but  what  he  will  do  that.  So  we  have  got  to  make  up  our  minds 
that  we  have  to  provide  money  to  meet  the  cost  under  either  plan. 

Senator  SIMMONS.  If  this  information  was  obtainable,  and  was 
o-athered  by  you  and  presented,  and  we  should  find  too  large  a  per- 
centage were  going  to  ask  cash  for  us  to  pass  the  bill  in  a  certain 
form,  we  might  amend  it  by  making  the  other  schemes  a  little  bit 
more?  acceptable,  so  as  to  attract  some  of  the  men  who  under  the 
proposed  bill  would  want  cash. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Of  course,  such  a  poll  would  be  helpful;  that  is 

admitted. 

Senator  SMOOT.  Senator,  I  think  under  this  the  40  per  cent 
granted  is  all  the  Government  ought  to  do,  because  the  Government 
has  to  meet  the  situation  in  the  end,  and  the  amount  of  money  would 
be  a  treat  deal  more  in  the  end  than  if  they  took  cash.  As  a  business 
proposition,  of  course,  you  or  anybody  else  would  not  offer  an  in- 
crease of  40  per  cent.  In  five  years  they  would  have  a  borrowing 
privilege  of  more  than  $500  in  cash;  so  that  is  8  per  cent  increase, 
dividing  the  40  per  cent  into  the  five  years. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Of  course,  it  is  an  obligation  of  the  Government. 

Senator  SMOOT.  Absolutely ;  and  must  be  paid  and  must  be  met. 

25942 — 20 — PT  1 1 


18  SOLDIERS     ADJUSTED   COMPENSATION. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Our  poll  would  not  be  decisive  of  anything;  it 
would  really  leave  the  question  for  the  Senate  Finance  Committee 
to  determine. 

Senator  McLeAN.  No;  but  if  it  indicated  almost  a  unanimous 
choice  for  the  cash,  I  should  hope  that  the  representatives  of  the 
Legion  themselves — I  think  I  know  how  you  would  feel  about  it — 
and  under  all  the  circumstances  it  might  be  fair  to  the  country  and 
to  the  legion  to  eliminate  entirely  the  cash  bonus  and  to  provide 
some  other  means  that  would  possibly  satisfy  under  all  conditions. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  I  understand  from  your  remarks  that  you 
are  about  to  proceed  to  show  the  justice  of  the  demand,  even  though  it 
were  cash? 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  Yes. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  And  I  want  to  ask  you  a  question  that  prop- 
erly preceded  that,  and  that  is  why  this  differentiation  is  made  be- 
tween those  who  served  in  the  United  States  and  those  who  were, 
many  of  them,  lucky  enough  to  get  abroad.  I  wrote  to  the  War  De- 
partment at  one  time  to  ascertain  about  how  many  of  the  American 
soldiers  were  actually  engaged  in  battle  and  at  the  battle  line,  and  I 
think  the  response  was  250,000.  Then  all  of  the  balance  of  them,  if 
that  statement  is  correct — my  statement  was  written  a  year  or  so  ago — 
were  either  in  the  United  States  or  were  on  their  way  or  were  near 
the  battle  lines.  But  they  were  all  very  anxious  and  willing  to  get 
over;  all  of  them  performed  their  duties  as  soldiers;  none  of  them 
would  have  stayed  on  this  side  if  they  could  have  gotten  over  at  all ; 
and  some  got  as  far  as  Great  Britain,  some  got  into  France,  and  some 
got  to  the  very  battle  line  and  took  part  in  the  battle. 

Now,  it  strikes  me  that  all  should  be  treated  alike,  and  I  would  like 
to  see  some  real  reason  given  why  we  should  make  a  differentiation 
between  them  as  against  those  who  were  so  eager  to  go  over  and  yet 
because  of  the  sudden  cessation  of  the  Avar  were  unable  to  go  across. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  I  am  glad  you  asked  that  question,  Senator  McCum- 
ber.  The  original  bill  as  presented  by  the  American  Legion  to  the 
House  Ways  and  Means  Committee  did  not  contain  any  differen- 
tiation. The  men,  I  think,  in  the  service  realize  that  those  fellows 
who  found  their  way  to  the  fighting  line  were  the  lucky  men,  and 
many  men  were  compelled — some  of  the  very  best  men  in  aviation,  for 
example — compelled  to  remain  in  this  country  in  order  to  train  others, 
and  to  differentiate  against  them  seemed  quite  unfair. 

That  differentiation  was  made  by  the  Ways  and  Means  Committee 
of  the  House,  and  the  best  information  I  had  was  that  the  reason  they 
did  it  was  because  there  was  such  a  differentiation  made  in  the  Cana- 
dain  adjusted  compensation  bill.  That  is  all  I  ever  heard  on  that  sub- 
ject as  to  why  there  should  be  that  differentiation. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  If  the  matter  involved  the  decision  of  the  in- 
dividual himself  as  to  whether  he  would  serve  in  the  United  States 
or  go  where  there  was  some  fighting,  I  could  see  a  reason  for  it.  But 
inasmuch  as  it  involves  nothing  of  that  kind  it  seems  to  me  not  to  be 
quite  fair  to  all  of  the  veterans. 

Mr.  BETTMAN.  It  was  not  in  the  original  bill  of  the  Legion ;  it  was 
put  in  there  by  the  House  Ways  and  Means  Committee.  Our  in- 
formation, however,  to  observe  one  suggestion,  is  that  there  were 
quite  a  number  more  men  than  you  have  stated  who  went  across.  The 
estimate  we  have  is  that  there  were  1,800,000. 


SOLDIERS      ADJUSTED    COMPEXS.N  .  

A     000043917 

Senator  McCuMBER.  My  question  to  the  department  was,  How 
many  actually  engaged  in  battle  ?  And  the  response,  as  I  remember 
now — I  am  only  speaking  from  memory — was  about  250,000.  But 
that  could  be  established  very  easily. 

Mr.  BETTMAX.  Those  parts  of  the  plan  which  provide  for  what 
we  have  called  the  ;'  productive  channels,"  it  seems  indisputable  that 
no  Senator  or  Congressman  would  deny  to  a  man  who  had  served 
in  the  Army  assistance  to  the  extent  of  $1.25  a  day  for  his  service 
in  buying  a  home,  or  in  settling  on  the  land,  or  improving  his 
ability  to  earn  his  living  by  vocational  training.  It  seems  that 
those  features  of  the  bill,  the  advantage  to  the  country  in  settling 
the  men  on  the  land  or  by  getting  them  to  be  home  owners,  or  en- 
gaging in  vocational  training,  is  so  indisputable  that  surely  the 
country  performs  not  only  its  obligation  to  the  ex-service  men  but 
benefits  itself  so  much  that,  as  to  these  features  of  the  bill,  the  subject 
is  scarcely  debatable. 

The  only  debatable  feature,  therefore,  is  this  question  of  the  ad- 
justed compensation  in  cash.  What  is  the  basic  justification  for 
that? 

These  points  will  be  expanded  more  by  Mr.  Galbraith,  who  will 
follow  me. 

You  have  to  picture  the  situation  at  the  time  of  the  passage  of 
the  selective-service  draft.  One  man  was  taken  and  told  that  he 
must  go  into  the  Army,  and  he  served  at  $1  a  day;  another  man, 
by  the  operations  of  the  selective-service  law,  remained  in  this  coun- 
try and  he  was  getting,  maybe,  in  civilian  life  $2.50  a  day, 
and  his  pay  went  up  during  the  war  from  $4  to  $5,  or  $6  or  $7 
a  day,  whereas  the  man  who  went  into  the  service  got  his  $1  or  $1.25 
a  day  for  overseas  service.  There  was  inequality  in  that.  In  this 
country  we  did  not  draft  labor ;  we  paid  labor  the  war-panic  prices. 
There  was  a  draft  of  the  men  for  military  service,  but  not  a  draft 
for  the  men  for  civil  service;  and  maybe  that  was  the  best  thing 
to  do  at  the  time;  maybe  nothing  else  could  have  been  done.  But 
by  doing  that  there  was  a  basic  inequality  which  this  adjusted  com- 
pensation is  an  attempt  to  correct.  It  is  not  an  entire  correction; 
it  is  a  partial  correction  of  that  injustice  of  making  one  man  serve 
at  a  dollar  a  day,  whereas  the  man  who  was  not  in  the  service  got 
$5,  $6,  or  $7  a  day. 

Senator  McCuMBER.  The  members  of  the  committee  now  have  to 
go  on  the  Senate  floor,  and  the  committee  will  stand  adjourned  until 
10.30  o'clock  to-morrow  morning,  when  we  will  meet  in  this  room. 

(Thereupon,  at  11.58  o'clock  a.  m.,  the  committee  adjourned  to 
meet  to-morrow,  Thursday,  December  16,  1920,  at  10.30  o'clock  a.  m.) 


